Backing for Northrepps solar farm which could power Cromer

16 comments

• As always when the topic of wind or solar farms is debated the for and against brigades find plenty of factual and biased views to support their respective viewpoints. However, almost universally most of the arguments do not address the fact that the UK is, within the very near future, going to face an energy crisis when many of our existing nuclear and coal fired power stations are taken off-line due to decommissioning. Add into this scenario possible interruptions to oil or gas supplies from both the Middle East and Europe the need to do urgently explore any viable way of generating more of our own power is easily made. Unfortunately, spurious arguments about spoiling the view and how green energy will drive people into fuel poverty do not provide answers to the questions of how and where will we get our energy from in the future. Given that the National Audit Office has provided projected costs to decommission our existing nuclear power stations at approximately £87 billion pounds. This figure combined with the public investment that will be required as inducements for foreign companies to provide and operate any new nuclear power plants suggests that energy costs will rise to unaffordable levels at some point in the future regardless of whatever method of power generation used. Unfortunately, the lets bury our heads in the sand attitude that prevails regarding these problems means that sooner rather than later the lights will almost certainly go out.

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  Douglas McCoy

  Wednesday, August 15, 2012

• Perhaps time for a change of viewpoint? Let's forget "green" as virtually no generation system is perfectly green. Let's look instead at practical renewable electricity generation, in reality wind, tidal or solar. I have worked with tidal and wish I never had, if you imagine that wind greenies are mad, they're on a different plane to the tidal ones! Tidal will never work for mass generation for the following reasons...... 1.There are very few tidal sites in UK which are practical.....2.. A tidal current of circa 7knots + is need to produce worthwhile power. ....3..Such sites are rare and mostly in Orkney and the Bristol Channel....4..If a tidal barrage was built over the Bristol Channel it would be very effective on its own, but there are very few sites as good, so,,,, it would be on its own! Off shore wind is practical as large numbers of turbines can be built in a field and share a common single cable to the nearest point in the National Grid. ALL wind however is dependent on...........WIND, and lot's of it, NO WIND,, NO POWER however wind obsessed you are that point is not arguable. So wind is possible if OFFSHORE. ONSHORE wind is nothing more than a financial scam, the only thing generated by the vast majority of wind turbines is cash for its owner, paid for by all utility bill payers irrespective of their ability to pay. So, ONSHORE wind is out of any realistic equation. Another aspect of ONSHORE wind is that generally it's not very windy in most of the UK, the year round average for most of Norfolk, for example, is circa 6.5 Metressecond, (DECC figures) At 7 metressec a wind turbine rated at 800Kw, will generate only 180Kw (Manufacturers figures), so the only way to generate more it to make the turbines as large as technology allows, the output is a function of the size. Now if you want to spend years in planning and upsetting at least 85% of your local neighbours and ex friends, then that's as good a way as any!!. And, no matter what you wish, you won't make the windspeed increase to suit your money grabbing needs! Solar is good but only works in daylight just as wind only works when windy. Solar needs large areas to be effective as, like wind, it is not that efficient in extracting electrical energy from wind or light. So we must be careful not to use land suitable for food production for electricity generation. Large buildings have large roofs so these can be used, boundaries of fields could be used etc etc. Solar has so many advantages over the others though it is hard to better it. Low lying, near invisible to most (How many of the entire population of N Walsham even know there is a 5Mw solar farm here) totally silent (bet you're glad you don't live near the council agreed noisy ones in Kessingland) and no real threat to any animal or bird species. So, to recap, tidal is good but extremely limited, Offshore wind is OK but only when windy, Onshore wind is a financial scam, nothing less, so solar wins as it is effective, and innofensive to the vast majority!!!

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  Windless

  Monday, August 13, 2012

• In any logical system we must be wary of the power of words burying facts and reason. The Green debate is such, and it's a great pity because much of what it says is probably true.. However, all that glitters is not gold, and all that is painted green is not right. Onshore turbines is such a debate. There is no economic or efficiency argument that stands investigation, so some have hijacked any buzz words that happen to pass. Words like 'Nimby' and 'Green'. And who pays for this false reasoning? You and me. The government have become frozen in the headlights of those that shout, green, whatever the truth. Charging the poor and ordinary voter a huge premium for onshore windfarms and single landbased turbines is not green, it's daylight robbery

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  weaversway

  Monday, August 13, 2012

• Green" energy [wind or solar panels] would not be financially viable if current financial support was withdrawn. Unfortunately at the current time we have to accept this situation as a "fait accompli" not least because it is Government policy to pursue this nonsensical route.  Hopefully all is not lost. We must try to influence our local councils and elected representatives to ensure that these structures are not built but, if they are, the one which will have the least effect on the people and environment of Norfolk is chosen. On this basis the consensus appears to be that solar panels would be preferred. Are you disillusioned by rising electricity prices, over dependence on the “green” dream [especially uneconomical and inefficient wind farms] and the destruction of our countryside then please object to the Government by GOOGLING “E-PETITION 22958″ and following the link. Please pass this message on to Councillors, members of your community and anyone else you know to persuade them to sign up too. If you are really concerned about wind turbines please write a letter promoting this petition to your local Newsletter and to the Editors of your local newspapers.

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  David Ramsbotham

  Monday, August 13, 2012

• Calciumkid!!! Well if these posts are designed to encourage debate then they are doing a fine job! Thanks for your response. As a means of generating useable electricity onshore wind is a joke. On Thursday at 0400 I drove to central Scotland and today at 0500 I drove back to Norfolk. At best 50% of all of the hundreds of turbines I saw were turning at all and most that were; were turning very slowly and therefore not generating any useable electricity. Yet, the people I saw in the towns we passed through all seemed to have all the electricity they needed, of course they did, it was coming from coal, gas and nuclear! As onshore wind is so unreliable the generating systems which DO work have to have enough in reserve for when it's not windy, as it wasn't this weekend. As to your Danish obsession, as it happens I am off to work in the offices of DONG (Danish Oil and Natural Gas) this very week and for some weeks afterwards, so I can check out your figures! You will undoubtedly have missed the news article in the Scottish press (BBC NEWSScotland) this week about Vestas, the leading Dutch manufacturer of wind turbines laying off 3000 workers due to reduced demand, and also the Skykon (Why do almost all wind turbine manufacturers manage to use the word "con" in their names, Enercon, Skykon!!) people in the Western Isles struggling financially too. So it seems your wonderland of renewables isn't quite coming up to scratch! You may also be interested to know that I work in OIL, Gas and OFFSHORE wind professionally, indeed a tracked robotic vehicle I designed is wandering around the seabed off Newcastle right now connecting the turbines and burying their cables, I have also worked in tidal turbines. You may wish to look at a great website, www.gridwatch,templar.co.uk which is like a fuel gauge of the national grid, live and showing how much each form of generation is contributing to the UK needs, wind will disappoint you, be assured!!! However, whichever way you look at it, a 180Kw turbine output off Bodham is not going to help the National Grid too much, it will, however, take money from you, and me and others, rich or poor in the absurd subsidies paid to its already rich owner, whether we can afford them, or not. It will also dominate and ruin, an otherwise beautiful skyline.

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  windup

  Monday, August 13, 2012

• sayitasitis... you really seem to have a thorn in your side about wind energy! But I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the wind industry is here to stay, in 2011 total installed global wind capacity reached 239 GW (around 3% of world electricity demand), by 2016 installed capacity will have reached around 500 GW. You complain about turbines being manufactured in Germany, but how can you blame the Germans for getting their house in order and developing what is a multi billion pound industry, creating jobs and increasing GDP considerably. The Danish were also quick to develop these industries in their early days and now benefit from a very successful export market, the UK as per usual dragged its feet and got left behind. You also seem to think that PV technology is greener than wind, but the energy payback ratio (amount of energy produced in relation to energy used in manufacture, installation and maintenance) for wind is higher than that for PV and so surely a greener technology? Even so all renewable energy sources need to be developed to some extent, we could learn a lot from the Danes who have the most diverse energy system in Europe. They utilize wind, biomass and solar, a lot of which is de-centralised and owned by local groups generating a significant proportion of their own electricity and heat from Combined Heat Power plants, a technology which is very efficient but sadly largely ignored in this country. The question is what sort of electricity network do we want? Do we want as the average Daily Mail reader would prefer dozens of fossil fuel burning power stations, fuel which we have to buy from volatile regions around the world and which is becoming more expensive year on year, which then means increased electricity bills. Or better still nuclear power stations which also use a finite fuel, cost a fortune and which when finished with we have no were to dispose of its lethal waste! Maybe a amendment should be made to the plans for the waste incinerator to include an underground repository for the nuclear waste, because it has to go somewhere! Or do we do what the average Guardian reader wants and cover the countryside with wind turbines and PV farms. Personally I wouldnt really wish for either but I do feel that an energy source which is free, whether it be wind, solar, wave or tidal should be used to the best of its ability in its best location, the amount of energy contained within the natural energy systems (winds, solar radiation etc) dwarf the worlds energy needs. These energy sources may cost more at the moment but it all comes down to economy of scale, the more units which are built the cheaper they become and the greater the technological advancements, Siemens are currently testing a 6 MW turbine. I imagine the early nuclear power stations where phenomenally expensive yet we still persevered with this technology and developed it further. A solution needs to be found and it needs to be found pretty sharpish, because we can not continue as we are!

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  calciumkid

  Sunday, August 12, 2012

• I remain open minded and would love to read some reliable facts based on the actual performance of both wind farms and solar farms. Comments here about solar panels being somehow more green because they use materials capable of being recycled are a good example of bad information as anyone who has read technical details on their composition and manufacture would know that this is not so. However I can see that solar panels are perhaps the way forward. However what concerns me about this scheme is not its green credentials but rather that it not being done to be green but simply to make money from a rather over generous scheme which we are all paying for. I have no problem with solar panel installation sized to serve the house or building on which they are installed, but I do have problems with solar panel farms designed purely to make money.

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  Carol Barnes

  Sunday, August 12, 2012

• nrg. I agree and in a perfect world they'd be made in UK. They're not "as far as possible from green energy" though as they are only made once, are at least partly recyleable and have a life of 25 yrs. So I have agreed at least partly. Now lets consider the proposed Bodham turbine from a green point of view. Entirely made in Germany, by Germans, installed and commisioned by Germans. Made largely of GRP (Fibreglass) non recyclable and formed using epoxy chemicals themselves non recycleable and harmful in their own manufacturing process. Several tens of kilos of rare earth neodymium magnets made in about the least environmentally way possible in China, then transported several thousand miles, first to Germany then on to here. The turbine is also transported by road and ship (ships are the most polluting form of transport) and at the end of all that fuss, you may, if lucky get 180Kw in the local ambient winds!!! At least in this way we, UKPLC get circa 3465Kw, a useable amount of electricity and we don't have a 550ft above sea level eyesore in one of the most beautiful parts of Norfolk. And they're SILENT!!!

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  windup

  Saturday, August 11, 2012

• Sayitasitis...would you agree that the panels, which are all made in China...are far away as possible from being called clean energy. Behind their shiny gleaming green ideology is a nasty darkside secret.

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  nrg

  Saturday, August 11, 2012

• Ben Silent and invisible. Are you missing the point here?

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  windup

  Saturday, August 11, 2012

• Northrepps appear to allow all sorts of noisy and ugly blots on their landscape... so a solar farm will fit in just perfectly!

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  Ben

  Saturday, August 11, 2012

• Perhaps I am being cynical here but the usual flurry of comments from the pro wind turbine anoraks seems to be missing this one. The only conclusion can be that they finally (and, good grief, it's been a long haul) accept that onshore wind is not only a scam but also a complete waste of time and money, and only rewards the turbine owner. As soon as a practical and infinitely more acceptable alternative comes along they all seem to go and hide in their wee sheds. I wonder why they are so quiet, it can only be that they know they have been wrong, all along!!!

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  windup

  Friday, August 10, 2012

• will this be the power supply to the new housing estate being built on the triangle at northrepps??????

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  stephen watson

  Friday, August 10, 2012

• As I have already said re this....NOW WE'RE TALKING!!!!!! This is proper renewable energy, potentially enough for Cromer, not exactly a small town, OK during daytime only. Unanimous agreement from all Councillors, not the scabby arguments running for 10 YEARS as in the case of Shipdham. And much more reliable energy than wind can ever be, it's always daylight, for some of the day, it doesn't need to be sunny, though that is good. Now consider Bodham, why would we want an eyesore dominating most of the North Norfolk skyline generating perhaps 180Kw (DECC windspeed figures for that exact square kilometer) when you can have 9.9Mw (9900Kw) more or less invisible to the vast majority, max height 2.5Metres. Ok let's be fair, 9.9 Kw is the rated power, divide by 2 as it's dark 12hrs per day year round, then factor 70% to allow for dull days, that's still 3465Kw, some way from perhaps 180Kw at Bodham, or the 400Kw that the now, thankfully binned, planned monster for N Walsham might have managed! Now I can already hear the "generating electricity from arable land" argument starting to try and bite me, have a look at Genatec website and see how much land they're planning to plant, ponds, hedges, etc when you consider their planned turbine stands on a wee pole!! Solar has NO noise, NO bat or bird problems, easy connection to the grid nearby, it really doesn't get any better! One thing is definite, no argument, the lady from Stoke Holy Cross won't be able to see it, and, guaranteed, certainly won't be able to hear it!!!!!

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  windup

  Thursday, August 9, 2012

• This is a better option than wind turbines. I would be interested to hear the views of the many vocal green energy supporters [especially Callum] on this alternative.

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  David Ramsbotham

  Thursday, August 9, 2012

• This is a better option than wind turbines. I would be interested to hear the views of the many vocal green energy supporters [especially Callum] on this alternative.

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  David Ramsbotham

  Thursday, August 9, 2012